The computer is already programmed to fire without the PATS system and it can be tuned just like any other Ford computer. Or swap out for a 4.6 3v? We'll send you raw engine tech articles, news, features, and videos every week from EngineLabs. $62.50. A 5.4 should bolt in right in place of the 4.6. The PCM won't be able to tell the difference between the old and new. If you do this please post on here your progress. All Ford modular engines come with mass air fuel injection systems from the factory. (A friend test drove a newer Mustang GT and while he was cruising at 95 mph and backup system threw a minor code. As far as I know on this forum, it's never been done before. (with pics of course). There really isn't much aftermarket for the V10, the 3v came from the factory with 362 ponies and 457 ft lbs of torque. Seems like alot less hassle. As the air moves past the wire, it cools the wire and changes the resistance, and the computer can read the change. When using factory computers and wiring, pay close attention to the connectors. Most professional mechanics have a scan tool that not only reads the error codes, but it can track data live while the car is running and look at data stored by the computer. . This one should do a bit more than that seeing as it has a custom Marty Ochs tune and a. Most aftermarket programmers have data logging and error code reading capabilities built in, so they are all-in-one solutions. Its larger pins and unique plug keying identify the EEC-IV computer. The first is a basic low-cost code reader, the second is scan tools and data loggers, and the third is programmers. "We also offer complete wiring systems for the 2005 to 2009 Mustang GT 3-valve 4.6 engine and manual transmission." They have an automatic version as well. DMX. There are three levels of communication with the PCM, and these three levels require three different tools. A Crown Victoria engine and a Mustang engine may have the same connector, but Ford changes the pinouts of the wires in the connector. The stock 2003 computer mounting bracket is used to mount the computer and provides proper grounding. If you are going to use a Ford harness and computer in your swap, make sure you get all the wiring and electronic parts from the donor car. idk really. crown vic 3v swapcapricorn and virgo flirting. There's nothing strikingly different about them in comparison to 2v or 4v pistons other than slight notches at the edge. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. Generated in 0.038 seconds in which 0.013 seconds were spent on a total of 15 queries. Mass air systems do not require many fuel curve tables and can calculate the most efficient ratio on the fly. The IRS cradle was narrowed to make room for the 11-inch-wide rear wheels. The stock fuel pump controller was mounted down in the driver-side quarter panel. so if they are canceling the variable timing it will make less than 300 hp, the variable timing is the key to make 300 hp . Will it bolt up to my transmission? Zlib compression enabled. With the radiator and intercooler plumbing, the empty space in front of the engine goes away very fast. However, the newer the engine and vehicle, the more difficult it is to use the factory components. 3v conversion is not possible at the time, the junkyard already sold the pcm and wiring harness. Some other harness suppliers require you to convert to GM-style generic sensors, which may make it difficult in the future to remember what is installed in the car. I like the idea of a 3v over a coyote because I like how people **** on 3v's now that the coyotes came out but its still a great motor with less displacement and headflow. For example, the PCM mounting on the donor vehicle may be in a place that doesnt work on your swap, and changing the placement may be difficult. The computer calculates the amount of fuel to be delivered to the engine based on air volume, air temperature, manifold pressure, and exhaust gas mix. If you use a factory Ford computer and harness, make sure you acquire or have all the necessary parts, including sensors, boxes that bolt to the firewall, etc. Ford has used at least four different computer systems to control the modular engines. JCG1 im going to stop using modular fords forum and use another forum. For this, you need a scan tool, which costs more than the error code readers, depending on what level of features your scan tool possesses. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.5.9. Most error codes are for emissions systems, but there are codes assigned to manufacturer specific problems. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. It was contacting the factory underframe, so it was turned 180 degrees and rewired and no longer touches the hood. MM sells them. Throttle Bodies. MASSIVE issues to get that to work in a non OEM install. The only real advantage the automatic has over a manual is driveability for extreme stop and go traffic and starting uphill, but with careful footwork it's not a big deal with a manual. We also offer complete wiring systems for the 2005 to 2009 Mustang GT 3-valve 4.6 engine and manual transmission.They have an automatic version as well. Black Label Garage 1.78K subscribers Subscribe 89K views 4 years ago In this episode i go over what it takes to bolt up your Crown Vic IFS into your. open to all modifications to the 5 . Ford F-100 / F-Series Crown Vic Swap Adjustable Motor Mounts for Chevy LS 4.8L/5.3L/6.0L . i started a project my 03 crown vic i paid 1100 bucks for it at an auction. The basic code reader can read error codes stored in the computer. the factory harness lays right on top of the motor. The PCM harness comes out through the side panel and into the passengers side through the corner firewall. You'll notice that the Triton 4.6 3v and the Marauder 4.6 (4v?) Generated in 0.029 seconds in which 0.014 seconds were spent on a total of 16 queries. When your computer sets an error code, it records exactly what was happening when the error occurred. Nuff said. The mass air meter heats up a small wire and then measures the resistance in the wire. They're very similar to Mark or cobra pistons, but slightly more dish. The 4.6L SOHC 2-valve engine was the fleet engine of choice for taxicabs and police cars as well as hundreds of thousands of Crown Vics, trucks, vans, and Mustangs, they're usually easy to find and cheap to buy. Alpha N computer controls are a simple form of fuel injection. It would also open you up to a newer style intake manifold. The TorqShift is A LOT larger. The third level of communication allows you to reprogram your computer system, and this is what you need to get around systems such as PATS. The DTC follows the industry standard OBDII numbering system. As a result, the old mechanical fuel pressure regulator and fuel tank return line were eliminated. The computer can tell you more about what is happening with the engine than any external device. This gets my vote for coolest swap idea this week! Outside of figuring out where to mount the cable for the clutch and modifying the shifter with a 2005-ish Mustang boot and some aluminum, it went . You would have to mess around with lots of things to make it work so it all comes down to how much is your time worth vs the end results. The biggest reason for plug and play is the car is at my brother's 1200 miles away in Montana. (Photo Courtesy HPT). Archive - When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Ford 4.9 Throttle Body Upgrade2019 Ford F-250. For the later VCT engines, the Ford Control Pack will also control the variable cam timing. These computers are all mass airflow design, so they must use an airflow meter to measure the amount of air going into the engine. looks really good. In 2005 Ford introduced the throttle-by-wire system that actuated the throttle plate using an electric motor rather than a traditional cable. The reason I ask is because I was reading a debat in another thread where the 5.4 makes more torque, due to its bigger displacement, but not necesarily more horsepower. Ford frequently changed them, even within model years. All other intake will be truck intake that will be sticking out of the hood. So that got me thinking; Aftermarket heads for the 2v are very expensive, but I can get a set of 3v heads for cheap, and with a little cleanup and a cam phaser lockout, I could have a better flowing head. The following are brief synopses of the Ford computer systems: The EEC-IV computer was installed on the earliest modular engines in full-size Ford cars. Which sounds to me like the 2V head is the limiting factor. Yes it will breathe more than a 2v but you're taking away all the adjustability of the performance, so whats the point? While this is a simple system used in some race cars, it is not recommended for most street and street/strip applications, as it doesnt take into consideration any exhaust gas information or emission information. (It also contains headlight wiring and a bunch of other stuff you will not need, but get it!) _____ Best time 13.079 @ 105 1.8 60 . babygurl2020 4 yr. ago A 2 valve have a curved or a bent In the coil pack just remove one and you'll see. Get the body harness (the other 70 pin connector on the PCM) so you can cut that up to fit the crown vic. There are low profile aftermarket aluminum manifolds for . I did some research and although I see alot of 2v to 3v engine swaps, I wasn't able to find a single build where someone installed 3v heads on a 2v bottom end. I did a lot of work at Ford and was at the StThomas assembly quite a bit, where they made the Crown Vic's, Grand's and Town Cars. The biggest challenges to installing the engine are the width and height. i bought a 6.2l short block and heads for it. You can copy and paste this link to share: I doubt many members on here will do it 11 psi whipple kit = bolt on 500+ hp 4.6L 3V V8. The 2v with PI heads is a an exccelent power making motor. You may also have to move pins within connectors if you have mismatched harnesses, or if you are trying to combine harness connectors. Electronic speed control is tucked under the driver-side splash shield. The engine and transmission were set back about 4 inches to help with the clearance of the stock Eaton-style supercharger snout, as this build will use a stock 1967 turn-signal hood. Will it fit? The newer the engine, the more difficult it is to use a factory system. Renegade Race Engines 4.6 SOHC: Cobra Crank, Manley Rods, Custom coated Diamond Pistons >10.5:1 cr w/valve reliefs, PnP npi heads, Comp Cams, 70mm TB, Maurader Intake Assembly w/80mmMAF, 24# inj, Walbro 190lph, FRPP shortys, custom 2.25 dual exh, SCT Xcal2, Dirtyd0g TC; RoadmasterTranz Police Duty 4R70W (mild J-mod). Supposedly Romeo to Romeo and Windsor to Windsor 2v 3v and 4v heads are interchangeable with blocks. Insight towards what to expect 3 Dimitrov67 3 yr. ago thanks man i'll take a look at it OlYeller01 3 yr. ago The fuel system was custom designed to use the components from the 2003 Cobra. They didn't come that way as a regular production option. The round port with the plug just above the oil fill is the servo for the Variable Camshaft Timing (VCT). Generated in 0.114 seconds in which 0.042 seconds were spent on a total of 16 queries. i called around asking about what computer i should use, i have been told to use the FRPP 3.V kit for the 6.2 in my crown vic and have it calibrated for my engine, the heads will be stock no cnc work. Note how far back the engine is placed. I own an '88 GT and can tell you the engine bay is HUGE once you factor out all the crap needed for emmisions and A/C. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. If you plan on using the factory computer and wiring, here are the requirements: It is best to have a complete donor car; it gets very expensive running back to your dealer every time you are missing a sensor. In a nut shell, not all 4.6L engines are built the same. 90% of the 4V's airflow in a narrower package. the 3v computer is just a computer it doesnt know if the engine has 2v 3v or 4v it just calculates the air and fuel. The three-valve version was introduced in 2005 and was used in the Mustang GT through 2010. The main advantage of the 3V is indeed the cam phaser so locking it out would really offset any real potential. I'd just wait for a 2v block or get the 3v motor and use 2v internals and heads on it. ", Well I'm interested in seeing what the swap does for you! Programming the computer is very easy and the wiring from the donor Cobra can be used. However, a simple software jump in the PCM programming could defeat these systems. Currently, the best choice for operating the Coyote engine and later engines with VCT is the Ford Performance Control Pack. I think the only real issue is with one of the bolts on the timing cover not lining up properly, as you'll need to use your current timing cover. They did this through a series of binary pulses that generated engine error codes with the Key On Engine Off (KOEO) test. Starting in 1996, the Ford Securilock system was integrated into Ford cars and trucks, and in 1999, Ford upgraded to the PATS II system. Ford made it increasingly difficult to mix and match the wiring harnesses because of various options on the vehicle. Hi guys, yesterday my engine decided that 182,xxx miles was enough and developed a rod knock, i drained the oil today and yep, all glittery and such. Once you have chosen an engine, it is time to select a computer and wiring harness to control the engine. Because they all have the same height at the edge of the pistons, gotcha.,, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.5.9. HPTs VCM Scanner is a computerbased diagnostic tool that allows you to download and analyze real-time data, allows you to chart information to look for intermittent problems, and also allows tests to be run on individual components and systems. In the late 1990s Ford introduced the returnless fuel system that eliminated the mechanical fuel pressure regulator and fuel return line used since the 1980s. This can make the mounting using original hardware difficult in tight engine compartments. You need to buy a wiring diagram! They are more torquey because of their long stroke. It is a must for anyone using the original Ford harnesses in a project, and its a good idea to have one even if you are planning on using an aftermarket harness. Wouldn't it be possible to tap into the ECU and make it functional? im interested in get some info for you ill be back, no the 6.2l is a 2v. Filed Under: Ford Engine Swaps, Ford Modular Engines, Ford Mustang, Ford Tech Tips, Ford Torino, 2023 DiY Ford. Come join the discussion about performance, racing, builds, modifications, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! As I outlined in the introduction, one of the advantages to a modular engine swap is the ability to get information from the computer for both maintenance and performance tuning. Some sell pre-programmed tunes based on experience, but specific tunes are generally left to the experts. Both types have benefits and drawbacks. My car in its current state makes 215hp? You don't understand how jihad works, infidel. While I wish you all the best there is no way you are anywhere near 300 hp (let alone 450 hp) with stock 2v heads and cams. The first modular engines installed in full-size Fords used the reliable but now aging EEC-IV computer from the 1980s. :dumb: I resisted the urge to go "what the f would you want to do this for? Paul's saying they used a 2010 3v computer and harness (and a pro tuner described it as taking awhile to tune right - which would make me pause right there) but YOU are talking about using a 2 valve computer and harness from a 10 year old 03. hey JCG1 thanks for replying, yes the 6.2l has VVT but I was going to lock that out. Using the control pack requires you to convert your system back to a mechanical fuel regulator and return system. One of the most popular swaps going these days is underpinning various classic trucks with the front suspension off of the venerable Ford Crown Victoria, including the 1967-1972 Ford F-100. Programming for the ECM is required.. The basic code reader can read error codes stored in the computer. Brand New. The 4.6 3V was dropped in 2010, but the 5.4 3V continued in some trucks until 2015. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. 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Basically this thread is only about a higher compression engine wich usually net a 15% gain for a full point of compression bump so we are even farther in hp gain than we expected with the 3v heads swap. The 20032004 Cobra Terminator engines continue to be a popular swap engine because they are easy to modify and produce a lot of power. Through the scanner you can turn on the low and high fan outputs on the Ford system before you fire up your engine and know you will have the cooling fans on first start. SHARE THIS ARTICLE:Please feel free to share this article on Facebook, in Forums, or with any Clubs you participate in. Determine what, if any, other components from the donor vehicle you would like to use (e.g., transmissions, ABS, electric windows). I'd like to keep the stock gauges, and keep the stock column but I suppose i don't need to for the column. What do I need to swap for ECM, harnesses, and such? The first is a basic low-cost code reader, the second is scan tools and data loggers, and the third is programmers. In the end, Patrick got exactly what he wanted: a Crown Victoria that looks & drives as if it came with a Coyote from the factory. The car has received a mini tub in the back and all four fenders have been flared 112 inches. and used safety glass to fill in the rear windows. The 4R100 is quite a bit larger than the 4R70W, but a little smaller than the TorqShift. A mass airflow system features a meter mounted ahead of the throttle plate that measures the amount of air going into the engine. Here are some of the bigger hurdles to consider if using a Ford wiring harness and computer. Using Ford factory wiring harnesses is an option for most engines and projects. DaewooOfDeath wrote: Junkyard 4.6 plus blower seems obvious. The knock sensor will pull a [censored] load of timing before that happens. I have been trolling the auctions and I am looking to pick-up a Crown Vic Cop Car. Error codes are primarily usedfor emissions issues, and when your PCM senses a problem, it stores a DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) and turns on the check engine light on the dash. About | Contact | Terms | Privacy, Unless you will be using the stock pump and controller in your. If you liked this article you will LOVE the full book. From what I've read, some of the changes to the Panther suspension in '03 were to fit the quad cam 4.6 in the Marauder. This owner wanted to retain stock control of the fuel pump and the returnless fuel system. 02 Gt Oxford White, 07 Gt Tungsten Grey, 17 Gt Black, 87 Mercury Grand Marquis, 09 P71 Black. I was just interested in finding out if anyone has given this a try? When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. (Photo Courtesy Ford Performance Parts). Trusty Crown Vic 2-Valve Mod Motor For the 2005 to 2009 Ford Mustang 3-Valve 4.6 V8 Modular Engine with manual transmission, they have you covered here as well. or some sort of power adder. Of course my fantasy build is a V10/Fox-bodied Mustang with a manual trans (T56?). About this group. How much work will it take to fit a 4V 5.4 under a stock Panther hood. And maxing out the cam phasers pretty much defeats the whole purpose of the 3v setup. There are so many conflicting opinions Do I get the 5.4 2v? This servo can advance or retard the intake camshaft to increase the performance of the engine. JavaScript is disabled. It eliminates the shock towers and optional modular-engine mounts are available. This allows a scanner to access the analog and digital sensors that are controlled by the PCM. Eaton M112, 3.4 Billetflow upper, Accufab SBTB + Plenum, Tremec T-56 Magnum, 4.10's, Stainless Works LT's, 2.5" Exhaust W/ Borla Stingers, FX-R projectors, Addco F/R swaybars, Stainless Works LT's, Stainless Works catback, Mo's tune, JLT, Evolve CAI + AlphaN Tune, Dinan strut bar + rear swaybar, Stoptech ST40BBK, UUC Shifter,, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.5.9. also check out the 2010-2014 mustang forum up top and check out that new pic with a 6.2l in a 2005 stang I loaded up. The newer the computer and the greater the number of sensors, the more information there is available. Supercharger, Turbocharger, Nitrous Oxide & Water/Methanol Injection Engine Swaps 7.3L Gasoline V8 Engine 6.2L V8 5.0L Coyote EcoBoost (all engine sizes) Modular V10 (6.8l) Modular V8 (4.6L, 5.4L) Small Block V8 (221, 260, 289, 5.0/302, 5.8/351W) Big Block V8 - 385 Series (6.1/370, 7.0/429, 7.5/460) Ford V6 As the cars became more complex, Ford needed new ways to bring circuits together. Why even use the cam phaser lockout though? For the later throttle-by-wire engines, Ford has developed a control pack that uses a stock-style Ford computer and a plug-and-play wiring harness that controls just the engine. West Coast wiring guru David Toth has found that the Ford Controls Pack computer lays in perfect on older Mustangs and Cougars by mounting the PCM in the old battery tray area. is a forum and information center dedicated to the Ford Crown Victoria and its siblings: Mercury Grand Marquis, Mercury Marauder, and Lincoln Town Car. Some of these systems cannot be used in pollution-controlled vehicles. This is more of a two-way communication with your computer, and the computer can respond to your inquiries and perform tests for you. For a nice primer on hopping-up Mod Motors from our sister publication EngineLabs, go here. I figured with the valves being in different locations it would affect that but Ive never build a mod motor myself. The engine bay needs to be modified to make room for the bigger engine. As one of Bavaria's biggest draws it is alive with visitors year-round, but especially during the spectacular Christmas market. PATS Generated in 0.079 seconds in which 0.030 seconds were spent on a total of 16 queries. Error codes are primarily used, HOW TO SWAP FORD MODULAR ENGINES INTO MUSTANGS, TORINOS AND MORE. cams, sheet metal intake I made, injectors I cant remember the poundage though, billet fuel rails, 100mm tb, cam covers that I made. 11 psi whipple kit = bolt on 500+ hp 4.6L 3V V8. The long blacks are the SAME. With the exception of being able to erase codes, this is pretty much one-way communication, but it is still beneficial. A custom set of Speedhut gauges including a GPS speedometer is used. About 1999, the Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) was improved, and installing aftermarket components such as instrumentation became difficult. Say I got my hands on a 4.6 3v and wanted to drop in my 2009 P71 Crown Vic. 07 GT Tungsten Gray, 02 GT Oxford White, 09 Crown Vic P71, 87 Mercury Grand Marquis, 17 Gt Black. A programmer manufacturer can give you a list of tuners in your area, or you can work with one over the Internet. The latest systems cannot only give you the basic error codes, but can log information on the engine and systems when an error occurs, provide real-time running information on the performance of the engine, and be programmed over the Internet for engine and drivetrain improvements for both performance and efficiency. The sensor on the left is from a mid-1980s 5.0 Mustang, but the one on the right is from a GM application and is used on most aftermarket speed density systems. This harness contains wiring to the MAFS, Cooling fans, HEGOs, etc as well as the critical power and ground leads. I run a shortblock from a 07 3v with 44cc TFS 2V Heads. This one is tucked up under the dash of a 1952 truck. this is the GRM forum where small engines rule, so i'll be the one to suggest the turbo 2.3/T5 combo from the Thunderbird Turbocoupe. Also, the intake manifold on a 5.4 is a lot taller than the 4.6 manifold, and your hood won't close. VI-VCT used on the Coyote engines does the same for the exhaust cam and eliminates the need for an EGR system and improves emissions. Along with the standard industry error codes, each manufacturer has some proprietary codes that are available to cover specific features of its vehicles. i will keep factory compression ratio. Designed for installation in street rods and engine swaps, it is a complete plug-and-play system that comes with the drive-by-wire accelerator pedal and a harness designed to run only the engine. A set of custom engine mounts was added to this MII crossover bar to move the engine back 4 inches to make room for the Eaton Supercharger. Ford used this computer system throughout the 1980s and EEC-V replaced it in 1994. Retaining the original computer and harness for your engine type is simpler and easier than using an aftermarket computer because you can use the factory plugs and the original wiring and sensors. The TBW throttle body/servo is only a minor issue. Some manufacturers still use speed density. Zlib compression enabled. You can run your current 2v motor mounts, they bolt right in.